Episode 80
Alice Lovelace 2.0: This Poem IS Going Somewhere!
In our last conversation, (Episode 26) we shared Alice Lovelace's tumultuous history as a solo teaching artist and performer working with young writers all across the rural south. What follows is Alice's next chapter. In it she talks about building an extraordinary multi-disciplinary, cross-sector cultural institution that rises up from the funky detritus of the pandemic as a new beachhead of creative change in a small Georgia Community.
BIO
Alice Lovelace is a cultural worker, performance artist, teacher, poet, organizer, author, playwright, and arts administer. Since 1976 Atlanta has been her home of choice; a fertile ground for artistic growth and activism, and in 1978, she discovered the Neighborhood Arts Center and met Ebon Dooley (Leo Hale) and Toni Cade Bambara. Together, they organized poetry readings and classes while conducting meetings for the Southern Collective of African American Writers (SCAAW).
In 1981, Ebon and Alice founded the nonprofit: Southeast Community Cultural Center located at the former Grant Park Elementary School and in 1984 opened the former school as The Arts Exchange – a studio space for artists, a theater, recording studio, two galleries, a dance studio, and home to the Atlanta Writers Resource Center. Between 1998 and 2000 Alice became executive director of Alternate ROOTS, an artists-led southern regional organization; and along with Dr. Lisa Delpit and actress Jane Fonda, she founded and stepped into the role of executive director of the Atlanta Partnership for Arts in Learning (APAL). Currently serving as the president of the board of ArtsXchange, Alice continues to serve the public need through programs implemented at the nonprofit’s newly renovate facility in East Point, GA.
Notable Mentions:
Change the Story/ Change the World https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/change-the-story-change-the-world/id1687938227
ArtsXchange | Community Cultural Center | East Point, Georgia
Morehouse School of Medicine - MSM - Atlanta
Sipp Culture – Telling Our Story, Growing Our Future
Maynard Jackson, first Black Mayor of Atlanta
Neighborhood Arts Center History - Community Art in Atlanta, 1977-1987 ...
Transcript
Alice Lovelace 2.0
[:This poem is full of blood, fornication, guts, and guns.
This poem hates nationalists, sexists, racists, factionalists, and fundamentalists of all ilk’s.
However, this poem encourages creative lies when those lies are in line with this poem’s politics.
This poem, This poem, This poem is about starvation in Ethiopia, tribal warfare in Rwanda, ethnic cleansing in Yugoslavia, oil workers striking in Nigeria, starvation, re-classification, indoctrination, stagnation, and the return of the colonialists to oversee our freedom
This poem, This poem, This poem is about moving forward but you goin' nowhere, you goin' nowhere, you goin' nowhere
[:You know, one of the limitations of the podcast game is that it's almost always a slice of the story at a particular point in time. And, at the end of the day, the sign off, is the sign-off, and what happens next and next is of course the unknowable future. But many, no, most of our stories are works-in-progress, and, I don't know about you, but I usually want to turn the page, particularly for these emerging post pandemic chapters.
ateur, creative change agent [:In our last conversation, we shared her tumultuous history as a solo teaching artist and performer bringing the craft and inspiration of poetry into the lives of young writers all across the rural south. We also heard about her return to cultural organizing to help the ArtsXchange, the community centered community, serving arts organization she helped she helped establish 40 years ago, in it's struggle To keep its head above water during the pandemic.
Now, what follows the next chapter, one might say, its about something new arising from the ArtsXchange legacy, a specific place in Atlanta whose time had come and gone. But whose story is amazingly, in these times, growing in momentum and power. Embedded in what follows are a lot of lessons about foresight and ownership and accountability, and the essential value of history. It's a story, I have no doubt, will bring a smile, and a spark of optimism to our listeners.
Part one. “I could just feel it”
[:[00:03:20] BC: It's so much better, Yeah,
[:[00:03:25] BC: Yeah, All right, So, what's happening in in Alice Lovelace's world these days?
[:[00:03:45] BC: One of the things that jumped out at me was that it's like you created a space, you cultivated the soil, and a whole lot of seeds blew in, and a lot of stuff got growing, some of which you probably had [00:04:00] in mind and other stuff that just showed up. Is that right?
[:So it does make us have a very crowded calendar.
[:[00:04:34] AL: It was a school building, an elementary school.
[:[00:04:41] AL: Oh yeah. it was built in 1940.
[:[00:04:50] AL: We had we owned a school building in Atlanta in the Grant Park neighborhood. And that's the facility that we sold when the developers came and overran the community. So, we bought this building and started the renovations. So it took extensive renovations, the building was in really bad shape.
But it was one of those things where I think I maybe had looked at least 60 different buildings trying to find a home. And I walked in the door here, and even though it was in terrible shape, it just had a feeling to it, could feel it. And so we, I, so we'd take a chance. We bought it and stripped it all the way down to the bare bones and just started building it back up from the bones. And it's been a, it's… it was perfect home for us. It was where we were supposed to be.
e studios, an acting studio. [:[00:06:25] BC: Oh, I mean, I gotta get me a ticket and just come and hang out. I mean… I do. I don't know if you had a dream, but it sounds like this is a dream space.
[:So, the traditional, and the Avant Garde, and we always mixed them up and there's just always been this big mix. It was what we were born to do.
Part Two: Growing Stories
[:[00:07:35] AL: Yeah, this is where we're doing our biggest work right now. Covid disrupted a lot of work and set us back. So, we actually are partnering with a lot of different organizations in the community and focusing on it. So, where we are is outside of Atlanta. We moved here purposefully, because Atlanta just had too many arts organizations, it was overserved.
e purposefully moved here to [:And the whole purpose is for us to promote art outside of Atlanta, and to get artists who live in this part of the county to identify as artists from here so that we can begin to build an art identity. But also, that we can go together and market the south side of Fulton County as a destination.
the first time the city has [:[00:09:10] BC: Yeah. And I noticed you're growing a few things too. Right?
[:So, we tore up our front lawn and all of our grass, and the whole idea is that we're starting a conservation program. All of the property has to be productive, not dead, not grass that has to be mowed. There has to be something growing there, or it has to be a platform for classroom, for a teaching, learning area. Or for a beautification, restoration where people can come and sit and be with nature and [00:10:00] just be restored. So, we're working on shifting the land.
We do a lot of programs for seniors. Senior citizens are one of the largest groups out here and we're expanding that. And then STEAM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Arts, Math) workshops. And then, the gallery has a full schedule and the literary program. So, the whole idea is to position ourselves so what we say is that, that we are an “art place of wellness and healing.” So, our whole thing is to how can we use art to heal the community and to be a place where they come for wellness and respite,
[:[00:10:35] AL: Oh yeah, with the Sipp Culture Yeah. Carlton is doing big stuff in Mississippi, so proud of what he is doing there. So glad he decided to go home and take all of that expertise home.
[:And you know, the ArtsXchange, now this is a story incubation center, and it's amazing what you're doing.
[:[00:11:50] BC: It is. But, with your head, your hands, and your hearts in it, in the soil, in the clay, on the stage, in the [00:12:00] community meeting. So is this also a place where people who are organizing for various issues come and, gather, and convene?
[:So, they'll have an all-day workshop here for urban farmers from all around the metro area, training them. And then, there's a market here called Market 166. And because this is a food desert, the people in the neighborhood began to. organized their own market. So, they started organizing here, and now they're about ready to start moving to the market.
tially here for whatever the [:Again, because we own it, we can work with them to either give it away free or at very nominal cost and so it's. It is a blessing. It is a blessing for us to be able to bless other people like that. So, we get a lot of diverse groups. We get trainings from Emory University people training artists on art and social change.
Yeah, you name it. And it's come through here.
Part Three: Owning the Future
So, you built an incredible foundation that's obviously gonna take off in many directions. What do you see? Long term
[:So, I'll continue to do that for another year, to keep building a war chest for them, and to help with the investments, and to make sure that we're sound. And then I'm hoping to go away, and I'm hoping that the people who need it will come and take it. I constantly have to say this, but I don't think people believe me. But I say, It doesn't matter what you build, it will only stand if people take ownership of it and treat it as if it's their own.
of the people, the presence [:[00:15:02] BC: So, talk to me about these two critical things. Number one is the importance of ownership. And that's, literally the physical ownership of this space. In a world that is unforgiving of those, who are, metaphorical and real renters, right?
[:[00:15:21] BC: And the other thing is this idea of transferring ownership, transferring equity from, original leaders to second, third, fourth generation leaders. Talk about that.
[:[00:15:51] BC: Now Maynard Jackson was the first black mayor of Atlanta, right?
[:[00:16:38] BC: That's such a critical milestone. Could you talk about what that meant to you all? Long-term.
[:So, we sold the building, and we got a nice pot of money to allow us to buy this building outright, renovated outright, and put away money to be invested for the future of this building. And I tell all artists I encounter that you have to own, you have to own your place of work. You can't book, it's just essential.
hoping people will not step [:Part Four: Leaders and Libraries
[:[00:18:24] AL: When it comes to new leadership, I mean, the young lady that took over from me as president of the board, she started taking dance classes at the old ArtsXchange when she was six years old, so we, we look to legacy people who understand the history of this organization.
And we've started also building more younger people into the board. We just brought on a 24-year-old board member. We're looking at someone who's 27. We're bringing in more younger people to get them to get that buy-in. And yeah, it's a process and you never know, But I, again, I say if it stands, it'll stand because they want it to
[:[00:19:08] AL: Yes, they do. What makes it work is that… so I'll talk about my children. My, my children were raised… Jikki (Riley) and I raised our children with our values. We didn't tell them that they had to adopt our values, but we made our values very obvious, and we involved them in the things that were meaningful to us.
And we never said, this is how you have to live your life. But we were gratified in that they all did follow in our footsteps. They saw what we were doing, they identified with it. And even as they went through their young lives, when they returned to the power of art in making powerful change.
And so, you raise a child the way you wanted them to go. We raised this organization the way we wanted it to go, so hopefully it'll keep moving in that direction.
[:And that's not the story you're telling. You're telling a different story.
[:There's always someone who wants to push you back. There's always has been. There always will be. So, all you can do is plant your feet somewhere and hold that ground. And that's what we did. And we planted our feet and we're holding this ground.
[:[00:21:47] AL: Yeah. one of the things that I lament is that cultural leaders are no longer trained the way I was trained. So, a lot of the folks that we are trying to work with, and bring to leadership, they know one thing, or they may know two things, but they don't have a comprehensive range of skills or our ability to see big.
[:[00:22:07] AL: So, we'll make a plan, and if something happens, someone says, “That's not in the plan,” but I'm always looking for that thing that enhances the plan, deepens the plan that should have been in the plan, but we just didn't know about it at the time. But if we've got room, let's put it in the plan.
But I'm very selective about it because a lot of people come to us for things. So, I try to be very selective, and that's what I'm trying my best to teach now is how to recognize when something fits into your plan, and lifts up what you're doing, or when something just simply wants to take advantage of what you're doing and understanding that authentic relationship, yeah.
[:So, every generation has to find its own way. And I've tried to remind myself constantly that it won't be like, I've run it. It won't be like it was that first 40 years. It will morph and it will be different, and I'm good with that as long as it serves the people it's supposed to.
[:[00:23:57] AL: Amen to that.
[:[00:24:03] AL: And history is more than a recitation of facts, and this happened when and where and what.
[:[00:24:09] AL: It is also about a, an evolution of the path of the world.
So, a piece of marketing materials attributed a quote to me that said we were “building a place of art for art's sake, but also for art for people's sake.”
And so, I had to circle it and say, this is a contradiction. You can't do both. You don't understand the dichotomy that these things don't go together. And that's what history gives you. So, I had to say, no. I support people who wanna make art for art's sake, but I believe in art for people.
[:[00:24:39] AL: Totally.
[:[00:25:17] AL: That goes right out there with objective journalism.
[:[00:25:23] AL: Anything, when there’s human involvement, there are perspectives that you bring to it. There are your politics your, even your religion. I mean, all of these things come to inform it. So, the fact that we can create art for people who could never afford art on their own, for whom art was never intended, they were too below it. Yeah.
And so again, I hate to harp on my children but that's one thing that I am very proud of about my kids is that this is something that, we constantly talk about.
And some of my greatest political conversations, and understandings come in conversations with them. And I tell you that somebody has to carry it forward. It can't all drop out just because a generation dies.
[:I just thought of something, Alice, so if the impossible actually manifests, which is that Alice Lovelace steps aside. Okay? …a nd that new leadership takes place, are you at all interested in, in, in doing some other stuff?
[:Yeah. I'm writing I've been asked to, to do some training of the next generation of artists. And we're thinking about starting a training institute here --- training that there are theories and practices in community art. It's not just a run in there, “I couldn't get a job anywhere else, let me work with the poor kids in the community.” But there are morals. There are values. There are things that have to be held to, and no one's teaching those things anymore. And so, there is a call for perhaps creating some sort of a, an ongoing institute that would actually teach that practice in a deeper way.
[:[00:27:33] AL: I think there are a lot of dynamic people out here still doing the work. Like you show every time you do a podcast, still out there doing the work, working in the field, and bringing in harvest. And that that the more those stories are told, when every, somebody starts talking about the doom and gloom, but every… the good thing is that it's not everybody.
ger. There's gossip. There's [:So, all of the ways that you can share with people that there are, there's so much hope out here and I believe it outweighs the other that's has to make such loud noises because they want us to believe that they're the majority, but I don't.
[:[00:28:52] AL: I thought that this last week was an example of what happens when someone doesn't understand the story that they're telling. That was Marjorie Taylor Green with her speech about Biden trying to be like FDR, and what she told was such a powerful story of lifting people up. I could not understand why she thought they could turn it into a campaign thing, it was brilliant. By turning a story on someone, because she's a person who is devoid of history, totally does not understand. She brings words out of the stratosphere, not understanding the power, what those words mean.
[:[00:29:44] AL: True that!
[:[00:30:01] AL: And if they were not in the positions that they were in.
[:[00:30:05] AL: Yeah. And that's the horror the fact that, that you could make the enemy of the library one of the last most democratic institutions that we have. I became endeared to libraries when, when we used to go downtown to the library and, the homeless population would come in, and one of the librarians had to explain to one of the patrons that we, we don't turn people away.
We can't turn people away. It doesn't matter who he is or where he came from or what he looks like when he walks through that door. This is a library.
And I was like, yes. I love the library.
[:[00:30:45] AL: But we should have, because books have always been dangerous, like writers and thinkers, and artists and creators have always, because you can conceive what others cannot.
[:[00:31:25] AL: Yeah I am looking forward to being able to actually sit with my thoughts and try to get a handle on what is it that, that, as a poet that I could communicate today that would make some sense out of the noise. And part of it is using the noise to debunk the noise. So yeah, I am, I really, I'm really am feeling, it's really weird, I'll be 76 next year I have never felt Younger. And I don't know if this is like that burst that you get before it's the end…
BC: Yes.
[:[00:32:04] BC: I hear you.
[:[00:32:10] BC: Yeah.
[:[00:32:14] BC: There are things to be set right, Here's the thing: I think we all wish that we wouldn't be here, but actually the existential questions are being called, they're not being whispered, and they're not being debated by pointy-headed people off in some university, they're being called on the front pages in the streets, every day.
[:[00:32:53] BC: Yep.
[:[00:32:57] BC: And that's the thing about history is how do you bring history as a real thing into the room so that somebody doesn't say, “That was an interesting and nice story. That's water under the bridge.”
But no, this is the water. We're in the flood and that's why I think the training thing is so important is to be able to tell those stories in a place where people have the time and the structure to ponder and discern what they're hearing.
[:[00:33:35] BC: Exactly.
[:[00:33:43] BC: Absolutely.
[:BC: Bye-bye.
[:[00:33:48] BC: And bye, bye, and thanks to those of you who are out there listening. And hey, if you have some comments or questions or ideas about how we can expand the Change, the Story community or [people you think we should be talking to, please drop us a line at csacatartandcommunity.com. That's. csac@artandcommunity.com. And please know, that we read and try our best to respond to everything.
Change the Story / Change the World is a production of the Center for the Study of Art and Community, our theme and soundscape spring forth from the head, heart and hands of the Maestra Judy Munsen. Our text editing is by Andre Nnebe. Our effects come from freesound.org, our inspiration rises up from the ever-present spirit of UKE 235. So, until next time, stay well, do good, and spread the good word. And rest assured this episode has been 100% human.
