Episode 54: Dijana Milošević - DAH Teatar

Dijana Milošević - Dah Teatar

[: 00:00:00

This is Change the Story / Change the World. My name is Bill Cleveland.

Part One: This Babylonian Confusion.

r story begins in the fall of: 2004

I look at my watch. It's one AM in Seattle, as I feel the 20-passenger turboprop bounce once, then twice, on the tarmac in Belgrade Serbia. After I sleepwalk through multiple security and customs checks, Dah theater actress. Sonia Tasić is there to meet me. She tells me in these parts, It's 9:00 AM. I'm barely awake. But we are late for rehearsal.

The city is a blur, as we speed over the Danube into the heart of Belgrade. Sonia is one of four actresses, two directors, two interns, a musician, and a sceneologist who comprised the Dah Teatar Research Center for Culture and Social Change.

Careening through the old city. She discusses her work, the current political climate, the curse of slow drivers, the state of theater in Serbia, and the history of Dah, which I am there to document for a book-in-progress called Dah Teatar Research Center for Culture and Social Change. She's been with Dah for the past eight years, which she says makes her the newcomer.

Dah’s birth, 13 years earlier, took place on the eve of a decade long civil war that turned Yugoslavia from one of communism's most civilized bastions into its most balkanized and traumatized remanent. Distancing themselves from their classical training, rookie co-directors Dijana Milošević and Jadranka Andjelić had founded a new company based on Odin theater director Eugenio Barbara's idea of the third theater. A theater born of whatever material resources are at hand and engendered by relationships, both within the company and with the community.

But the onset of war changed everything. It jolted Dijana and Jadranka out of the rarefied realm of abstracted art archetypical studio-based work into a chaotic universe of brutality, betrayal, and the street. Within weeks, Dah’s co-directors auditioned actors, and created a Barba influenced street performance, challenging the official government position that the war in Bosnia did not exist. This bold and some would say dangerous act was the first of many of Dah’s perilous and adventurous journeys.

th,: 1992

****

,: 1992

There is no curtain, and they are literally sweating with worry—worry and fear. What did they think they were doing? Years of training for the stage, only to debut here on the street in the middle of rush hour—bearing witness to an epidemic of not knowing, speaking words that have been disappeared, forgotten?

They had all agreed, this performance was unavoidable. This war that “does not exist” is destroying their country. The Bosnian, Serbia and Croatian men who are “not” being pulled from their beds in the middle of the night, never to return, can no longer be ignored. The cries of children who are “not” being cleansed from the cradle of their homelands must be heard. The mothers with “no” tears cannot remain invisible. In this interminable year of these things “not” happening the noxious cloud of denial has obscured the Serbian sun. Someone must speak.

It is time. The actors shed the coats that cover their black costumes and golden wings. One by one they begin the action, first in the gallery, and then, stepping purposefully into the square. Solo journeys merge and break apart, then merge again. The surging crowd changes course to avoid the black forms moving against and across the flow. A few slow, glancing haltingly at the incongruous wings springing back and forth on the crude harnesses attached

to the actor’s backs. Slowly, one of the actors, Maja Mitić, begins singing the lyrics culled from Bertold Brecht’s anti-war songs.

“In the dark times, will there be singing in the dark times? Yes, there will be singing about the dark times.”

The sun’s last golden glow mingles with the glint of streetlights. Jadranka holds her breath as the angels maintain their circuitous journey across the square to the empty fountain at the center. The singing continues.

“When evil doing comes like falling rain, nobody calls out stop! When crimes begin to pile up they become invisible.

When sufferings become unendurable the cries are no longer heard. The cries, too, fall like rain in the summer.”

The actors move more intensely, trading lines that ring out across the square. Though Brecht’s lyrics are sixty years removed, they are shocking to hear.

“When the leaders speak of peace The common folk know

That war is coming.

When the leaders curse war

The mobilization order is already written out.”

There is no mistaking what is being said here. This romance of blood and soil is an obscenity. With each passing line, the ugliness of the war is materializing in the Square. And now, as more people stop and cluster, the congregation of angels is accorded the space they need to complete their mission.

Dijana scans the crowd. There are people in suits, mothers and children, students with their book bags and, yes, men in uniforms.

Slowly it dawns on her that there are soldiers everywhere, watching the action, glancing nervously at each other, cradling their weapons. She feels like an acrophobic on the edge of a cliff, anticipating the gust of wind that will tip the balance one way or the other. She is both exhilarated and terrified by the danger of the moment and what she is sure will be its premature conclusion. But as the actors continue, nobody moves. They are all listening.

****

[00:9:49] BC: It's been 30 years since that performance, and 13, since my time in Belgrade listening and learning from the amazing women who comprised the Dah family. It would be an understatement to say that Dah has always been out in front in their work as a theater company. This is because they are much more than, well, a theater company. It would be more accurate to say that true to their full name, that Dah is a social change research collective fueled by theater.

've been up to. So, in May of: 2022

So, Dijana, I'd like to start by going back in history a bit. If you don't mind.

As I reflect on it, the period of time that is covered in the book has often been, described as “a dark time.” But then you transitioned into a different time, which, wasn't, a fairytale shift. I know things have been, equally challenging. So could you, take me from where we left off, to where we are now.

[: 00:10:09

[00:10:11] BC: yeah.

[: 00:10:37

And unfortunately, the prime minister got assassinated. We know who were the perpetrators, but until this day we don't officially know who basically ordered the assassination. We never heard. And so, I think from that time until today, that country is, I can describe it as, with a topic of our old show, The Story of Tea, it's about missing chances, missing trains.

It was inspired by Three Sisters, by Chekov. And their sitting somewhere in province and they are speaking about how to catch that train for Moscow, which is the capital. And they never go there. And I think this is exactly a metaphor for Serbia, what happened. And somehow, we really didn't catch that train for progress for, um, even joining European union.

There, it's a big talk about that all the time, it's like, uh, carrot in the distance. the government is, basically forcing the narrative that we should, become the part of European Union, not because of the values, but because of economy. And so, it's like very problematic, narrative.

So from that time to, until today we had the couple of changes in the government. And unfortunately for the last, I can say 10 years, it's a very difficult time with this government that basically is, run and led by the party. whose president was a very dark figure during Milošević’s time, very right oriented.

So country is, struggling with lots of issues. One of the biggest issue right now is that we are actually understanding that country was sold out to, like big corporations and some big players, like famous Rio Tinto, for example, and so on.

[: 00:12:32

[00:12:46] DM: Yes. So that country is literally like on sale, and that air and water and everything is so polluted. So, the let's say if we can speak about good side of it is that at least, people walk up and it's a huge green movement, that people are literally fighting for the right to, breathe, clean air.

BC: In January of: 2022

[00:13:16] Reporter: Serbia’s controversial. Lithium mine project is suspended for the moment. The Anglo Australian mining, giant Rio Tinto announced that it was pushing back its operation in the country by at least a year Serbian prime minister, Ana Brnabić

said the lithium project would be canceled.

This is a victory for the crowds of protestors that have been blocking roads in Serbia over weekends, since November many feared, the mining project would inflict long lasting ecological damage to rivers and farmland in the region.

[: 00:13:47

It's because also there is this recent situation. With Russia and the Serbia that doesn't want to take the side. And so again, we are having this situation that we might be facing sanctions from you, and the world.

And my, my actress, Ivana, she asked me the other day, she was like, wow, I can't believe that we are going to get the sanctions. And I said, look, the only good side to live for the very dark times is that you have that in experience, we are going to survive. Because she's 20 years younger than myself, and she was a child when we had the first sanctions and I said, “What we did was we did theater and, like, we worked, and we were fine.”

So, we are going to do the same. I hope. I absolutely condemn the war on Ukraine and, absolutely do not agree with what is happening over there and all of that, but so it's very complex issue about sanction.

[: 00:15:00

[00:15:09] DM: We moved. it's like our destiny. We started as a nomad theater it was a very challenging to stay in that space for two reason. One was economical because we are not on any budget by the city or by the government. For the last couple of years, we are getting some funds from the ministry of culture, which is a little bit easier, but still, it covers maybe fifth of our expenses. And, so economically it was, really very difficult to maintain the space because whatever we earned, we had to put into space, and it was no money for the people for us.

And so it created tensions and, difficult relationships between us another reason was political because, we are very openly, all the time against the government, and we are very open with our views.

We are not the members of any party. We’re very openly supporting Women in Black, and they are really, they have a very, very bad image with the nationalists and, government and so on. While we consider them as the bravest and the most amazing activist feminist groups. And because of all of that, eventually we had to move. We went to another venue. We were there for a while, and then again, we had to move out. And then, we concluded that, in fact, what is the situation now is we do have an office, which is very nice.

[: 00:16:36

So, we started to get new audience in a way. Of course, downside is that it's, beautiful to have your own space. Then we can work according to our schedules. It is great to have rehearsal studio and so on, but we realized we really need somehow to change the whole structure in order to survive economically. And so now, what we are planning is maybe next three to four years to get, again, the space, but to try to put it on much more solid economical legs, let's say,

[: 00:17:30

[00:17:36] DM: I can speak about two aspects. One is, as they already said, the structure of the company changed, much more than the work itself, because we realized from ensemble based theater group, we need to, invest more in managerial administration.

And that we cannot survive, with ensemble of actors that would do only administration. We were always doing it, so we needed to have some people who would be working just as financial manager, organizer, and so on.

So now it's interesting because we started as the very small core group of three women. And then, we are now eight women we call it the core of Dah. And then we have the circles of collaborators, actors, musicians, other artists, other collaborators, and so on.

And so, it, uh, for now it functions very well. And also, we started to be much more horizontally organized because before it was more like, this traditional environment like with, myself, being the leader and then, people that were, having of course different roles and so on.

And then slowly, we evolved into very horizontal, collective that I actually love. And I think this is really the right thing that we are really trying to collaborate and to be responsible equally for all parts of the work. So, in that sense, I think it's very happy changed. It came after a big earthquake when all the members, left, or away or asked to leave and in different things. And, as in any group, any organization, it was a painful process, but it worked, lot of good things to, to us and to them.

[: 00:19:16

But since then, I know you haven't been idle. And I know you've got a lot of things on the table. So how have these changes impacted the kinds of stories you tell and how you tell them?

[: 00:19:45

So, you might remember that Dah was co-founded by myself and herself, then she was for some years away. And then for the last, two years or so she's back and of course naturally being with, so now there are two directors,

Speaking about work itself, we were always doing what, in relation to what really, obsesses us. So, that didn't change. I could say we always work out of the needs to explore certain topic to face certain challenge --- to speak truth to the power. And so again, these are the topics that are related to what we are interested in, not what would be handy because of the finances, but what we are really burning about.

that it's still ongoing from: 2005

[00:21:32] BC: could you describe the bus work, how that came to be the story it tells.

[: 00:21:38

[00:22:39] BC: Yeah. Of course we have echoes of that as well here in the land of the free

[: 00:22:45

And then Jadranka got the idea to put it in the bus because the bus could go through the city, and we shall explore the stories of the neighborhood. The bus is passing through from that point of view. So, we would be searching, for example, in Belgrade, if we are passing for the Jewish neighborhood, we created the scene with the dances and the food, from the Jewish community, in the Roma neighborhood, we had the legend, how the Roma came to the world. Past the Parliament, we had the declaration of human rights told in 12 different languages by actors and it was done for the ordinary passengers, not for invited audience. But for the ordinary passengers who would enter into the bus and leave at their stops very often, passengers would miss their stops because they wanted to remain until the end.

[: 00:24:14

[00:24:23] Little Girl: Imagine a city where all people can live together.

Imagine a city where all people dance together.

Imagine a city where all people can sing together.

[: 00:24:56

But then we always had the, decoration of human rights. We always had the rap song, words in our language. We had the quiz, for example, where we would be asking tricky questions, like passengers about, that city, that place. And so on. Cause many of our people would believe that, for example, certain politician was a Serb and he was like the symbol of Serbia and he was not, and things like that.

[: 00:25:44

[00:26:03] DM: Uh, we started to have donors that started to approach us. People wanted that project, so we, did it, as I said, in the frame of the European project in Serbia.

And then we were the first, organization in Serbia who got EU funding, Creative Europe for that. And we did it in collaborations with, four other countries. So, we started to do Invisible City in the buses, in, Norway in England, in the train in Denmark, in Italy, Sardinia, and so on. And so, from time to time, then, we had invitation and we repeated and we covered lots of places in Serbia, but also internationally.

Here's Prodigal Theater, actor Ignacio Jarquin describing the Invisible City bus in Brighton, England

[: 00:26:54

And, then it started to be actually something that was, very relevant for the rest of the Europe and the world because migrant crisis started. And suddenly they realized that the Europe is very xenophobic and that European countries really need to remember that there is no one country that was actually not made up by people coming from different sites. And very often influencing it, greatly changing the course of, history.

And this is how it continues so then we had this break because of COVID because we couldn't perform in the bus because it's very tight. We are performing literally, in between, the, but then we hope that we are going to start, do to do it again.

[: 00:28:13

[00:28:39] DM: Yes, we also, we do it in different forms. We didn't have the International School for the last two years, again, because of Covid . But we started also to do something that is called, The Laboratory that we still keep doing. And we are doing, like the shorter number of days. We are interested groups of students or theater groups and so on.

So we have some regular collaboration with, professor Dennis Burnett at Coe College in he's coming, every year. And he's coming this year with his students. We developed this kind of collaboration with some other universities and colleges from the world.

And, maybe next year, we are going to do the International School again. Live, hopefully, and we do the workshops. We have seminars, we have a lots of… this education side is also very important.

[: 00:29:34

In 2021 Dah joined the global anti-deforestation movement through a project called Dancing Trees. Through this effort, they explored how artists can help their fellow humans navigate the tenuous and delicate space between indifference and despair in the face of the climate crisis.

Their approach has been to literally make a performance that engages the forest as a member of the ensemble, and by extension, as a member of the broader community. I asked if environmental issues had become a major focus for Dah?

[: 00:30:15

I grew up surrounded by trees when I was born, one tree was the popular tree was, actually, um, planted. And I grew up with the tree and I really always felt the trees as a living beings. And then, that led me, to finding that actually in some constitutions of some countries, the trees are already recognized as sentient living beings and that there are plans also for, in some other countries to do the same.

[: 00:31:10

They communicate between each other’s that it's an internet before internet because of the system of the roots and fungi. And then Jadranka joined the project. And so, we started to, research together because it was Covid Time so we couldn't rehearse. So, we really started to do the lot of exploration and then we started to, be the part of, ITAC, (International Teaching Artist Collaborative) I really, I, T, A, C, I really recommend it. It's the international network of, teaching artists. And we got a grant from them to develop the project, and the main topic was how can artists address climate change? And, in the process, we learned that actually the cutting of the trees, is one of the biggest causes of the unwanted climate changes.

And then through them, we met another expert in scientist and learn that literally to make it, simple. If there are no trees, there are no us. And that it’s better to be aware because we found so many things that trees are responsible for that mean life to us.

[: 00:33:06

[00:33:15] DM: So we decided from the beginning, that it'll be site specific that it'll be performed in one of the central city parks, Student’s Park.

We had the three dancers and four actors, but we were like not doing, like actors for acting dancers for dancing, but they were all together performing with the trees. We had seven performers. And then in that park it was almost like plateau with exactly seven trees, huge, beautiful trees. it's really incredible It's like they're greeting us when we come to perform there. People were actually very touched. We premiered it last October. But now, just last week we started to perform it again because we had to wait for the better weather.

[: 00:34:15

DM: Yeah.

BC: Wow. And and actually one of the difficult things about this creeping tragedy of climate change is that, for many people it's invisible or unreal or hard to put their arms around. And so, in the process of your performance, are you introducing people to the, sentientness of the tree as one of our fellow living systems that we depend on?

[: 00:34:47

And then also we needed to solve the formal technical problem. How to use the text in the open park in the city center. And, the audience would not hear the text. And so, what we did, was that in two moments of the show, performers literally comes into the audience and talk to them personally. So, there are seven performers and they divide audience into seven, groups and they talk.

And the first group of stories is linked with what was happening with the trees here to make people aware of the felling, and what the government did. And we had then, the cold, sad manual for cutting the trees. “Oh, you need these tools, and then you break, and then you cut, and then you take the root, and then, like it's about really killing and hurting. So, when you get all these stories and you connect to the trees, and then people started to realize that it's almost like a homicide, but it's like just, how we say, arbor-cide

And people really don't know that there are trees that are old, 5,000 years. Can you imagine the being that exists for 5,000 years or that the average life of the, ordinary tree in the could be 500 years? And can you imagine the trees have the memory.

[: 00:36:32

I don't believe trees. Stand still and solitude. During the night. another group of the stories is connected to what is the meaning of the trees?

[: 00:36:51

[00:37:10] BC: Something that rises up for me in describing these two projects is what I would say is a continuation, and even an increase in the intimacy that you have with your audiences. So, in the bus, you are with people and being outdoors with the trees, you really do have little groups engaging, the large and long history of these living things in a way that it's not abstract, it's not sitting in a theater. It is being with them. So, do you see that as a through line for all of your work --- an attempt to be with people as the trees are part of your company, maybe the audience part of your company as well.

[: 00:38:06

Because in the previous show, the Conundrum of the Revolution, we were, creating the show in the venue that is almost like, a little bit bigger apartment. And, we are dealing with the question of revolution, and the parallel histories, and the fact that actually we never know what is the truth, and that we need to, read in between. And so, we had the characters of revolutionaries, and because of the topic, my idea was to split the audience. We have it in the one space for 49 people, so still very close. And then we split it in two rooms. So, we create revolutionary cells, And so, it created super intimate contact with audience. Suddenly you are in the room, and in your apartment. And that was great. You're still performing it. So this something that was important.

[: 00:39:23

Dijana's description of revolutionary tales being spun and living rooms reminded me of the Wedding Community Play in Northern Ireland that was produced during the time of The Troubles. This, along with Dah Teatar, was one of the stories we shared in Art and Upheaval. The cross-community theater artists in Belfast also understood the power of locating theater in the heart of a story's essential birthplace. In this case in Protestant and Catholic houses, and moving the audience around to the kitchens and living rooms where the stories were bubbling up. I must say it's a very powerful thing.

This again, brought to mind the terrible story unfolding 600 miles northeast of Belgrade in Ukraine.

Given the history that you have lived through, and the history that is taking place nearby, in Ukraine, I'm wondering how that is affecting, your work. And if you have, connections and relationships with people there who are basically trying to do the same thing you've been doing for your whole career.

[: 00:40:45

And we went to Austria for that award. And when the war in Ukraine started, we reached out to her and asked her, can we help somehow? And she said, she was living close to the, nuclear plant. And she said that she was, yeah, that she, decided to stay there and to cook for their Ukraine soldiers. So, we try, so we offer it to, can we help somehow. But, we lost contact. So we don't know what is happening, Other than that, here in Serbia, of course, we are, with the Women in Black that are condemning the war, and we going to streets and having actions and so on.

So, this is something that could be done because there is a big Russian-Ukrainian community here that are against the war. But what is the problem here? There is a big community of Serbs that are for Putin. And, it's complex. And they're saying that when United States, supports the wars, nobody hears about that, And now, that there are different criteria, if Russia is involved.

So, people are very bitter about, all of that. What is the world community doing? I can understand that point completely, but it doesn't erase the fact that this is terrible, unjust war. This is what we speak about. What theater could do to sustain contradiction, that even we could be completely against the war. We could completely be against this policy that, puts now, one country in total focus while forgetting the others that are also in conflict.

Another side is also this anti-Russian hysteria that is going on, around the world, and the United States. That is completely not just, I'm very sensitive to that. Because we were in our country against dictator and dictatorship. And then when we travel, we would be condemned because we were Serbs. And so, there are many Russians having the same situation, they flee the country, they were against the government, but then they could not get an Airbnb because they're Russians. They could not get gigs because they're Russians and so on. So this is something that we are talking about. We're just waiting to see what could be done because I believe it's important to understand how can we really help.

[: 00:43:25

[00:43:57] DM: Exactly.

[: 00:44:00

DM: Absolutely. And this is what is happening right now and they think it's so dangerous, so dangerous.

BC: One of the things I wanted to ask you is, you have this extraordinary arc of history that you've lived through, in which you have applied an amazingly disciplined creative process that interrogates and explores and experiments and asks questions. So, what have you learned about, your work and its place in a society?

[: 00:44:49

For example, in dancing trees, we are speaking about what certain, companies or officials did to the trees, but we are not separating communities because they are also the members of community. So, performers are inviting literally all audience to come to the trees and to surround the trees. So, then we create seven groups around seven trees and, sometimes it's 30 or 40 people around one tree, and it creates incredible feel. People start to hug trees and then, (and nobody asks them to hug the trees), and so they start to hug each other. They start to hold the hands and so on. And so, in that sense, I think we created the space where people could be together and share what is important for them.

Here's some members of the dancing trees, audience, reflecting on the impact.

Audience Member: Science has a small effect because they speak in codes. Art can bring people closer so that they feel it is their problem then then act.

BC: For most of my life, I've been obsessed with this thing that humans do, which is make story. I don't think we can help ourselves. We're always going to make a story. And, one of the things that I feel like you have dedicated yourself to over many years is to examine the stories, in a way that doesn't pander to, the obvious need for simplicity

But one of the things that's interesting to me is that you are there, you're with the trees, and you're delivering a hard reality. Which is, these beautiful things are vulnerable, and they're under threat, and there are forces at hand that don't care, and have profit in mind. But, it is a nurturing space for both mourning and connecting around a hard, question to confront. I feel really strongly that we need these zones where we can hold those contradictory stories, tragedy and celebration, in the same space. Because if it's all, if it's all tragedy, we're going to be depressed. If it's all celebration, we're just going to have a party, and those things are intrinsically connected.

So will Dancing Trees take place in other forests and other places? Is the road opening up again for Dah?

[: 00:48:33

We were also involved in the several, EU projects, supported by our program. Creative Europe or Erasmus Plus. So, we are partners in many projects. And all really great topics, from educating the teachers, how to work with pupils, with the topic of the gender-based violence. There is the Antigone Project to how to, work with the migrants who want to continue to work in the arts and topics like that. So, we started to travel again for us, the touring is very important. Part of the existence.

[: 00:49:30

[00:49:45] DM: It's very important to connect now live because of COVID, and because of being separated physically from each other. I think it's more important than ever to get together again, just to overcome the fear.

[: 00:49:59

[00:50:05] DM: Yeah.

[: 00:50:06

Actually, here's a final question. One of the conditions of being an American is being blind. When I speak with people from other parts of the world, one of the questions I ask is: Given how much impact we can have without even thinking, what would you say to your fellow artists here that we should be thinking about or seeing as we try to be creators in service to a better world?

[: 00:50:56

And then, and I would say, try to, at least a little bit, learn another language. learning another language is learning another way of thinking and it's so I think it's so important. It's another perspective or understanding in other culture. as my very dear friend, beautiful actress, musician, Kathy Randalls, from New Orleans. And she said, I didn't understand what does it mean bombing of the country until I walked under the bridge in Novi Sad that was later bombed, Yes.

[: 00:51:39

Imagine needing to cancel your dance class for kids due to local bombing. Or, being told by your supposed allies that, despite the unintended casualties, it was for your own good. This was the bizarre reality of life in Serbia for the members of Dah, and their neighbors, in the spring of 1999, when NATO bombers dropped over 1000 bombs on their country in their effort to force Yugoslavian President Slobodan Milošević's hand during the war in Kosovo. When he eventually capitulated, the terror that rained down on those little dance students, and their parents, and families all across Serbia was deemed strategically successful, and then, quickly forgotten by the generals and their countrymen and women who watched it all on TV.

nto Square of the Republic in: 1992

Another gift that we have been receiving for the past two years has been the time you have spent with us sharing these stories. So, as we come to the end of another episode, we thank you again for listening, and the extra effort some of you have made to share our stories with your friends and colleagues.

To that end we would also like to remind you about our new Change the Story Collection. This new feature is our response to listeners who told us that they liked to dig deeper into art and change episodes that focus on specific issues. like justice arts, cultural organizing theater for change or children and youth. If this interests you, please check it out at wwwartandcommunity.com. That's www art and community.com, under the podcast, dropdown, or click the link in our show notes.

Change the Story / Change the World is a production of the Center for the Study of Art and Community. It's written and hosted by me, Bill Cleveland, and our theme and soundscape are by the fantabulous duty Munson. Our editing is by Andre Nebby. Our special effects come from freesound.com and our inspiration rises up from the mysterious, but ever-present presence of UKE 235. Until next time please stay well, do good, and spread the good word,