Episode 70
Episode 70: Veronica Rojas - An Artist at work @ the Global Brain Health Institute
In this episode Veronica Rojas talks about working to advance new insights and ideas about creative aging alongside neurologists, architects, journalists, economists, psychologists, educators, and other artists as a Fellow at the Global Brain Health Institute at the University of California, San Francisco. It's quite an adventure.
BIO
Veronica Rojas: Veronica Rojas (b. Mexico City, 1973) was born into a multi-cultural family; her father is Mexican and her mother Swedish. Veronica grew up in Mexico City where she was exposed from very early on to the art of Remedios Varo, Leonora Carrington and Frida Kahlo. These artists have ever since remained a big influence in Veronica’s artwork. In 1995 she came to San Francisco, USA, to get a BFA at the San Francisco Art Institute and later an MFA at the California College of the Arts. She currently lives in Oakland, California. Veronica has shown her work nationally and internationally. She has been a Visual Aid Grant recipient and has been nominated to The Eureka Fellowship Grant and the Joan Mitchell Foundation Grant. In 2011 Veronica got the Jerome Caja Terrible Beauty Award. Veronicas’ paintings have been reviewed in Artweek Magazine, Bay Area Express, Metro Active and the TV program Latin Eyes. Currently, Veronica is an Atlantic Fellow for Brain Health and Equity at the Global Brain Health Institute.
Notable Mentions
Global Brain Health Institute: The Global Brain Health Institute (GBHI) is dedicated to protecting the world’s aging populations from threats to brain health. We strive to improve brain health for populations across the world, reaching into local communities and across our global network. GBHI brings together a powerful mix of disciplines, professions, backgrounds, skills, perspectives, and approaches to develop new science-based solutions.
The Atlantic Fellows for Equity in Brain Health: program provides innovative training, networking, and support to emerging leaders focused on improving brain health and reducing the impact of dementia.
Creative Growth Center: Founded in 1974, Creative Growth is a leader in the field of arts and disabilities, establishing a model for a creative community guided by the principle that art is fundamental to human expression and that all people are entitled to its tools of communication. From the first day Creative Growth started in the East Bay home of Elias Katz and Florence Ludins-Katz, the vision was clear. Art would be the path forward for people with disabilities to express themselves and a professional gallery would exhibit their work.
Art With Elders: Founded in 1991, AWE engages older adults in fine arts classes and shares their work and life experience through public exhibits. Through classes and exhibits, the AWE program provides older adults with a vehicle for self-expression, social connection, and a presence in the larger community. Classes are taught in person and online by professional artists and are available in 5 languages. Exhibits engage artists and audiences through the power of creativity, deepening connection between cultures and generations.
Creative Minds UCSF: Established in 2020, Creative Minds is a community arts for brain health initiative in San Francisco. This unique collaboration between the UCSF MAC Community Outreach Program and Atlantic Fellows at GBHI engages older adults in underserved and underrepresented neighborhoods through photography, art, storytelling, movement, and craft-making. Creative Minds partners with community centers and clinics throughout the city to incorporate brain health education and offer these creative experiences informed by the cultural and linguistic needs of our community members.
Memory Aging Center at UCSF: The UCSF Memory and Aging Center is an NIA-designated Alzheimer’s Disease Research Center working to translate research science into improved diagnosis and care for people with dementia due to Alzheimer's disease and related diseases, as well as to find a treatment or prevention.
Parkinson’s Disease: Parkinson’s disease is a brain disorder that causes unintended or uncontrollable movements, such as shaking, stiffness, and difficulty with balance and coordination.
Symptoms usually begin gradually and worsen over time. As the disease progresses, people may have difficulty walking and talking.
Alzheimer’s Disease: Alzheimer's disease is the most common type of dementia. It is a progressive disease beginning with mild memory loss and possibly leading to loss of the ability to carry on a conversation and respond to the environment. Alzheimer's disease involves parts of the brain that control thought, memory, and language.
Frontotemporal Dementia: Frontotemporal disorders (FTD), sometimes called frontotemporal dementia, are the result of damage to neurons in the frontal and temporal lobes of the brain. Many possible symptoms can result, including unusual behaviors, emotional problems, trouble communicating, difficulty with work, or difficulty with walking.
Social Prescribing: Social Prescribing is a holistic approach to healthcare that brings together the social and medical models of health and wellness. It provides a formal pathway for health providers to address the diverse determinants of health, using the familiar and trusted process of writing a prescription.
Social prescribing bridges the gap between clinical and social care by referring patients to local, non-clinical services that are chosen according to the client’s interests, goals, and gifts. It allows doctors, nurse practitioners, and interprofessional health providers to formally refer patients through to community-based programs.
(See Also: What is Social Prescribing, a video, and the Time Magazine article Why Some Doctors Are Prescribing Ballroom Dance or a Day at the Museum)
National Academy for Social Prescribing (United Kingdom) NASP is a national charity that champions social prescribing. We support and connect people, communities and organisations so that more people across the UK can enjoy better health and wellbeing
What is the evidence on the role of the arts in improving health and well-being? A scoping review, A Report of the World Health Organization: Over the past two decades, there has been a major increase in research into the effects of the arts on health and well-being, alongside developments in practice and policy activities in different countries across the WHO European Region and further afield.
This report synthesizes the global evidence on the role of the arts in improving health and well-being, with a specific focus on the WHO European Region. Results from over 3000 studies identified a major role for the arts in the prevention of ill health, promotion of health, and management and treatment of illness across the lifespan.
Anne Basting, our guest for CS/CW Episode 69, is a writer, artist and advocate for the power of creativity to change lives. She is Professor of English at the University of Wisconsin Milwaukee and Founder of the award-winning non-profit TimeSlips.org, which trains, inspires, and supports caregivers to infuse creativity into care. Her writing and large-scale public performances have helped shape an international movement to extend creative and meaningful expression from childhood, where it is expected, through to late life, where it has been too long withheld.
Transcript
Veronica Rojas – An Artist at work at the Global Brain Health Institute
[:To an outsider, this might seem like an incongruous stretch, but Veronica's take is that these seemingly disparate work environments and diverse relationships are intrinsically connected because they all help her address the threshold question she has spent her life exploring. Namely, how do we grow the multi-dimensional, multi-sensory language we need to make sense and meaning as humans together here on earth. I am sure you'd agree that this is a tall order for anyone, let alone an individual artist trying to navigate the chaotic change, constant story unfolding at the front end of the 21st century.
But like many of the guests on this show, Veronica has a superpower. Her special sauce allows her to understand that finding the answer to her question is not up to her alone. In fact, she knows that, if somehow, she finds herself alone on some mountain with what appears to be the answer to what she's been looking for, that she will have failed miserably in her quest. In short, she knows that the challenges of our collective future demands, a collective understanding that, in turn, produces collective solutions.
In our conversation with her, we'll hear about her unique creative path, her passionate commitment to working with and learning from artists with disabilities and neurocognitive disorders and the learning and leadership journey she has undertaken as a Global Brain Health Fellow. Along the way, we'll explore why the arts are being embraced by neuroscientists and clinicians as an effective tool in the treatment of dementia and other health issues related to aging? How the arts and medicine are increasingly finding common ground? And how interdisciplinary learning and collaboration have influenced Veronica's work as a visual artist?
This is Change the story. Change the World. My name is Bill Cleveland,
Part One. Once Upon a Time in Oakland,
Veronica Rojas, welcome to Change the Story. So let me begin by asking you for folks in other parts of the world, where are you sitting right now?
[:Nahuatl words, like Temescal, which is a neighbor here in Oakland. That's a word we use in Mexico, and it means basically a sweat lodge. But our sweat lodges in Mexico, are built of stone. So, it can also mean a vessel where you carry water. Also, this a city named Pinole.
[:[00:03:52] VR: Actually, it's Pinole. So, in Mexico there used to be a candy made out of corn powder. Very sweet and purple.
[:[00:04:15] VR: Yes. Yes. And I bet there were so many connections, more that we know before this country got colonized.
[:[00:04:32] VR: So, talking about indigenous words, I think mine will be reed, Malinali, and it is my astrological sign in horoscope. And it means, yeah, reed. So, I really feel that my life is like a plant it goes through the cycles, it grows in the water, grows in the swamp, but it's also very resilient plant, right?
And it can survive so much and can come back to life after drying. So, I think that's, The important part for me; fading away, but then coming back to life, the fact that you go through the seasons, you dry out, but then springtime comes and you start getting back to life becoming green again... and yeah.
[:[00:05:40] VR: Exactly. Exactly. So, so I guess the capacity to reinvent yourself.
[:[00:06:00] VR: Yeah, that's always a difficult thing to do. I would basically tell them, "Well, you know, I'm a visual artist. I like painting and drawing. I like to be inspired by nature. And pre-Hispanic codex and their symbols. I like talking about feminine energy and transformation healing. An important thing that I do is working with a community." I consider myself, a teaching artist, and being a visual artist and teacher kind of go hand in hand. One inspires the other. Yeah.
[:[00:06:54] VR: Well, it happened unexpectedly. I did not plan for it. I had just finished my master's and we never really thought about how are we going to survive as students. So, so I was faced with that fact right after celebrating and being happy that it was over. It's like, " How I going to survive?" So I remember back then there was a magazine called Art Week.
[:[00:07:24] VR: And they would post jobs there, and I saw this little ad saying that they were looking for an arts instructor at a community. They didn't really say what kind of community it was, but I felt it's worth going and check it out, and I needed the money.
[:[00:07:43] VR: So, so I did, um, and when I went there, I realized that the community was adults with developmental disabilities, which I had never had an experience working with this population.
And, and I was very curious, and I had my interview. And one of the things that they asked me was, and they were. If I think about this question, is if I would ever censor people when doing their artwork. And I said, "No, never. I, it would go against my grain." And that was, gave me the job right away.
[:[00:08:27] VR: Yes. And I didn't know if I was gonna be able to do this.
I had no idea because I did not know anything about people with developmental disability. So, I had to learn as I went along. But for me, they were just like any other kind of art student. I wouldn't change the way I taught. And I think the fact that I treated them as people, who happened to have a developmental disability really helped us see each other at who we are. And, and it became a very beautiful artistic community because I saw that their creative abilities were incredible.
[:[00:09:16] VR: There were artists in their own rights, and at the very beginning we were both having a little bit of a hard time opening up, but as we realized our capacities at creativity, we just start opening up and sharing things, and it became a life passion for me. So, that's how I started. And then I also start working with a beautiful organization called Art With Elders.
And it was the same kind of experience, which taught me, you know, we come in with so many biases and it's like a work that we have to constantly be doing with ourselves is. To overcome these biases, and I also learned that people with neurocognitive disorders like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, they have so much to offer.
Like our perception of what aging and neurocognitive diseases, it really isolates people. We really don't integrate people to that community. So, I learned that the power of art to integrate people who have been dehumanized, who have suffered discrimination, how the arts can change all that because it changes the perception of how people view them.
And it also changes the perception they have on themselves. So just that has brought me to want to understand more. That's why I kind joined the Global Brain Health in Institute thinking of. "What more is it to all this, to the arts, to bring health? How does it affect people who have dementia? And also, the power of healing and bringing quality of life to people and wellbeing. Right. So, so I guess what I'm saying is I like working in the community and a community that hasn't been integrated into our society but has so much to offer.
[:[00:11:24] VR: So, the lack of communication we have as a society became more important because we're not integrating everybody to communication. And also, the lack of fear when you try to do something creative because there used to be always this anxiety. Perfection. At least for me, whatever I was imagining in my mind had to come out perfectly in a piece of paper, let's say. But I will never do that.
[:[00:11:55] VR: Never, it will always be something different and just accept that. I like even honor that it, once it comes out from your mind to a piece of paper or canvas or sculpture. It changes and it needs to change organically. So giving a value to that. When I was in art school, uh, heard so many times frequently from instructors that there should never be a happy accident. Everything should be done purposely.
And then I learned from my experience working within the community of adult developmental, disability and also older adults with Alzheimer's or Parkinsons, that, no! Mistakes should be welcome. They should be part of the process. Yeah. That's where we learn from. If we don't make mistakes and if we don't make failures, we never learn anything. And sometimes mistakes are actually…
[:[00:12:58] VR: Brilliant, exactly. And I appreciated so much learning that.
[:[00:13:04] VR: And it changed also the way I live my life as well. So, yeah.
[:[00:13:32] VR: Exactly. That's the word. Fall back in love with the arts, because after art school, I had fallen out of it. And also, the other beautiful thing is to see how people start identifying themselves as an artist. And sometimes people, they think that because they haven't been to school, because they haven't gone to university, that they don't have an ability.
But when they see that they are artists, they start seeing themself as even having a career. So that's also very beautiful. And also, for older adults who see themselves as not being able to learn a new thing, and who go to the doctor and are being told, "Oh, you're going from neurocognitive decline. And they see themselves. "Okay. This is the end." But when they see that, in fact, they can learn something new, but that in fact they're good at it, and they have found a new way of communicating, when language starting to become more challenging, it changes their own perspective.
[:[00:14:43] VR: ...on themselves.
[:The imagination trumps all these stories we tell ourselves about where we should be and how we're supposed to act, and, and what expectation is reasonable or not. It's a lovely thing and it's not like you have to go out and get it. It's right there.
[:[00:15:22] BC: Part Two: Learning What we Already Knew
So, the Global Brain Health Institute; First of all, congratulations for being a part of it. It's no small thing to have become a Fellow there. And most people listening probably have never heard of it, and it's an international enterprise and it has a wonderful mission in the world. Could you just describe what it is?
[:[00:17:14] BC: Yes.
[:[00:17:51] BC: So, one of the things that's striking to me is that I think most people. Involved in the arts inside, what I would call sometimes, the arts bubble, I think would have a very difficult time imagining that there is a Brain Health Institute that is very high-level research with some of the best people in the world doing that research on the medical side, et cetera. I think this is so smart, that many other people could learn from, is that I think they understand that getting what it is they're finding out in the laboratory into the world is hard.
[:[00:18:33] BC: And, and it's incremental. That's one thing. And so inviting people from other fields to come and be partners so that there's bridges between the kind of white coat laboratory environment in which they work.
And the world of the people who are struggling with and trying to deal with these issues. That's number one, that's extraordinary. But the other thing that's striking to me is that often artists who are even involved in things like this recognize that they're kind of an extra, and that's not the case here.
[:Like motor skills, vicious spatial abilities. And also creates community because loneliness is a big risk factor in developing dementia.
[:[00:20:07] VR: Exactly.
[:[00:20:14] VR: Because people live their lives. You can live still, many years, and you still can do so much. And also, the arts can bring awareness to dementia and the risk factors, and also inform people about the resources they have.
[:[00:20:49] VR: Exactly. And, right now, what is happening a lot in Europe, and also here at least at UCSF, is that patient public voice has become a big thing. And in Europe, it, it's very involved in research as well here as well. And that is where people who are going through this are becoming involved in decisions regarding themselves, including research, and including what quality of life means for them and wellbeing, um, what works for them. So, they're becoming very strong advocates. And, and it's very beautiful to see how things are changing in the medical field because of this. And they bring more importance to what we are doing. What we're doing makes more sense to us. And I think in the arts, it's all about bringing people quality of life, wellbeing, and a way to communicate. Plus, yes, now they have found through research that it does help with cognitive ability. You know, when sensories are activated, it helps their brain always, and the arts do that. And it also activates memories so much.
[:[00:22:24] VR: yes,
[:[00:22:26] VR: Yeah, because I do, uh, clinical rotations and then we're in all the classes we have, we're all in all of them together, and they also have to learn about the arts. Just like we have to learn about biomarkers and TAU and amyloid proteins and...
[:[00:22:48] VR: ...all those things. Many of them come not really knowing about the power of art.
[:[00:22:55] VR: So, they also get like a very fast education about why the arts should be included. And I think as the months have gone by, we are collaborating more and talking more. And I think it's the connections, and the collaborations are even gonna be more important and stronger. As the years go by and as we basically graduate as fellows and become senior fellows, I think we are gonna collaborate more.
[:And then of course, we became specialized, and specialization has been a powerful thing in the world, but it seems like we're just turning the corner into a moment when we're going, "Oh, Wow, okay. This isn't another neighborhood. This is part of my neighborhood." So, I mean, I keep thinking about scientists who are saying, wow, we just found out what the synapsis' are doing. When people hear music, it's just amazing. And then the musician is going, yeah, you, you have the picture of the synapsis bouncing around out there. I've been watching this my whole life. No.
[:[00:25:03] BC: Yes, right here.
[:[00:25:11] BC: Exactly. But it's a wonderful thing. I mean, you're in a position where you can cheer each other on. It's not like I know better than you. And it's such a wonderful thing for all the different ways of knowing in the world to validate each other.
[:[00:25:29] BC: is, it's great.
[:[00:25:52] BC: Yes. I mean, you are part of a very, very large tribe of people who make things, a lot. And like I said, there are things that, knowledge, wisdom, understanding, intuition, that comes to us by way of the work. Often, we don't have a way to even talk about it, and it is a gift to learn, "Oh, that's what's going on. This is what flow looks like."
[:[00:26:32] BC: Yes, absolutely. And particularly for somebody who's having an experience in a state that they have lost their ability to be verbal, which is the dominant mode of communication, and you hand them another way of making sense in the world, to draw, to sing, to move to dance. I mean, that's basically coming back in touch with a life force.
[:[00:27:48] BC: Yes, it's rehumanizing,
[:[00:27:52] BC: For people who are burned out, and unappreciated themselves often, and I saw that in prison systems, I've seen that in mental health facilities, where all of a sudden someone says, "Hey, there's a wonderful loving person inside there that I never got to see, and now that's revealed."
[:[00:28:42] BC: Part Three, Seeing a Future.
So, you've probably had lots of encounters with your students. And do you have a story of a moment that is an example of what you see as the power of the encounter of artists working with people with what we call disabilities?
[:[00:29:43] BC: Yes. So, it, what you're saying is that you've changed from being a visitor, maybe even an exotic visitor to a regular part of their life that they now value, and maybe, place some responsibility on your shoulder because, "You're supposed to be here."
[:So, I remember the man with Parkinson’s, and he was having this problem, and I remember I told him, "It's okay, we can do the same drawing, but repeatedly through the paper. And he really enjoyed it, but still ha was having difficulties spacing the drawings on the paper. So, then we went ahead and start doing printmaking on small little form boards, and then he would just print them all over the paper.
[:[00:31:25] VR: And that changed the whole thing for him. He started loving the activity.
At first, he felt it was like a painful thing, Like, "Why are you here bothering me?" And suddenly, it was that the same thing. He was expecting me to be there and, and when I got there, he, kind of, already had gotten all the art materials out, and he was ready to do his small little foam boards and add them all to big pieces of paper.
[:[00:32:15] VR: Exactly, and we will talk about it, tell me, "Next time you come, can you bring this color?" So, it was a very positive change for him. I feel, he was, he, he was a perfect example of somebody who had given up, and then realizing that "No, there's still things I can learn, and I still have talent, and I really wanna get involved in this, and I have this project, and I wanna finish it, and then I wanna start another one," like seeing a future.
The other perfect example I have is of an artist because she can see some artists now from Mexico City, who had never had any kind of education in her life. And so, being in an art class was her first ever experience of some kind of education.
[:[00:33:11] VR: And for her it was very hard because she had a lot of self-doubt about any of her skills. And also, very low self-confidence. So, when she started in the class, she will steal people's artwork and copy them. But little did she know that by copying them she was actually learning. So, I did not stop her from doing it. So, she would just take people's drawings that were already finished and copy them, and then she would say, "Oh, I cannot do this. They look horrible. They're supposed to look like this." And they wouldn't.
So, I have to teach her that that was her way of seeing, and there was nothing wrong with that. It actually made it more unique and more beautiful. But for her to understand that took a very long time. But suddenly, it just happened out of the blue, she decided to do a drawing of her sisters and they were beautiful. It was like a very unique style, like with hairdos that were bigger than the body. And it was incredible. And everybody around her gave her compliments, and she had never received compliments in her whole life. So, for her, that was also now transforming experience and she started seeing herself differently.
And what happened with her personality was that she was a very shy person. And she started to open up, and be louder and more outspoken, and now she's the queen of the ball. Yeah, an amazing person. And start to exploring with other materials, starting to making dolls, ceramics, working on wood, and making wood sculptures, and everything she does is just spectacular.
[:[00:35:24] VR: Well, they have the annual shows, so ideally every participant gets a work into the exhibition through Creative Growth, which is the art center for adults with developmental. disabilities. Their mission is also to promote their artwork. So many people have exhibitions not only at the gallery at Creative Growth but the seams, galleries outside of Oakland, New York, San Francisco, Paris.
So, they truly have artistic careers. But I've seen many times people preparing to keep their artwork for themselves rather than, let's say, giving it away, At Art With Elders people love giving artwork to caregivers or their families as a thank you.
[:So, when you think about the world that we are stepping into, the future, and what you're learning, we have some people that feel ignored. Many people who are isolated in various ways, and many people who are angry with each other. So, do you see some of the things that you've learned in your work as having application in the way forward as a, as community?
[:[00:37:22] BC: Yes.
[:[00:38:18] BC: Social prescription. Yes. And it comes out of the health system in the, in Great Britain, and it's spread all over Europe and it's now here, as well. And here's a short description of the social prescription concept from the National Academy for Social Prescribing in Great Britain.
[:Because if one in five GP appointments are for non-medical problems, then this could be a time to explore other possibilities and options. Like social prescription, a system that takes a different approach where they won't just deal with the symptom, but sit with you to trace it, understand the cause, and then create a plan to replace it.
Talking about your health, finances, housing, or stress before linking you to activities that empower and suit you best. What if you were prescribed a social engagement, a social arrangement to get a pep in your step, in your feet on the pavement, brush in your hand, a tune from your lungs, a torque and support to help you manage your funds.
I'm talking about a place to feel connected with the community you've selected, making your activities more effective, experiencing as a collective, so you are positively affected whilst feeling safe and protected, surrounded by new people, allowing you to feel part of something bigger than you. We all want to be healthy and happy, and it's not just a nice idea, but a system that works that asked if medicine isn't the only option and puts you first with a wide range of solutions to help you get you through a social prescription could help you too.
[:[00:41:02] VR: Uh, yes, I do know.
[:[00:41:26] VR: Exactly.
[:[00:41:34] VR: Exactly, because we've been talking a lot about this, trying to create some policy changing intervention so that at least in California, because here in the States we have to. Small about how to have the arts, more of a social prescription. And at Global Brain Health Institute, there's already people trying to work on this and also policy makers.
We were talking about getting more involved because of trying to find the funding for our programs for people who are going from neuro-cognitive changes is not that easy.
[:[00:42:18] VR: So, if it was socially prescribed, it could change the whole story.
[:[00:42:24] VR: ... for all the stakeholders, for everyone.
[:[00:42:45] VR: Exactly. And you have no idea how that has helped so much, because before, as an artist, I will express myself to, let's say, institutions, but I did not have the backing of such an important institution as uh, GBHI. But now I say, "Oh, I'm an Atlantic Fellow at Global Brain Health Institute," then the whole story changes.
[:[00:43:33] VR: Like the Creative Minds of UCSF.
[:[00:43:40] VR: Yeah, so Creative Minds was actually developed by a Fellow at GBHI, and they, and also a neurologist from the community outreach program at the Memory Aging Center at UCSF. So, what they do is because they know the power of arts have on reducing risks for dementia, but also for helping people navigate dementia they created this art program that brings art and art classes by professional, done by professional artists like myself to community health centers. I actually taught a class recently at the Mission Community Health Clinic. At the end of the art class, one of the neurologists from UCSF would come and teach people about the importance of creativity in brain health.
[:[00:44:41] VR: And so, if the community is a Latino center, the talk will be given in Spanish. If the community is Chinese, the talk will be given in Chinese. So they're very inclusive in this aspect.
[:[00:45:06] VR: He, yes.
[:And I think this idea of translating to policy is critical, especially with social prescription because it does require an infrastructure. It requires training, and it requires support and monitoring and accountability because you're messing with people's lives.
[:[00:45:48] BC: and,
[:[00:46:04] BC: So, you're talking about Dr. The drugs themselves? The actual,
[:[00:46:14] BC: No.
[:[00:46:23] BC: Yeah. I think the metaphor here, maybe it's not a metaphor, but it's just a picture, it's that so much of the dementia story for most people is loss, and what we are talking about here is additive. It's like someone who's been told your muscles can't grow anymore, and in fact you turn around and you go, "Oh yes they can." There are muscles there that can actually grow.
[:[00:46:56] BC: No, it doesn't. You just have to exercise it. Its like a piece of clay.
[:[00:47:03] BC: Absolutely. So, there's never enough time for all the conversations we need to have.
[:[00:47:11] BC: All right, Veronica, you made my day.
[:[00:47:15] BC: Thank you. All right. Adios
[:[00:47:22] BC: Adios. And again, thanks to our listeners and a reminder: please check out our collections of past episodes that have been organized by subject, and arts discipline, and other ways on our website at www.artandcommunity.com, under the podcast dropdown.
Change the Story, Change the World is a production of the Center for the Study of Art and Community. Our theme and soundscape blossom regularly from the Brilliant Musical Garden tended by Judy Munsen. Our text editing is by Andre Nnebe, our FX's effects come from Freesound.org, and our inspiration rises up from the ever-present spirit of UKE 235. Until next time, stay well, do good, and spread the good word.
And one last note, this episode has been 100% human.
