What Does it take for a Community of Activist Artists & Cultural Organizers to Become a Real Force For Resistance & Change?

Bill Cleveland: 00:00:01

So here's a question. What does it take for a community of activist artists and cultural organizers to become a real force for resistance and change?

And doing that, how do we create communities that can hold both joy and grief and stay resilient in these weird hard times and still fight for justice together?

This is Artist Change, a chronicle of art and social change, where activist artists and cultural organizers share the skills and strategies they need to thrive as creative community leaders.

You know, sometimes you meet someone and instantly you feel like they've been gathering people, feeding souls, and making space for real conversations their whole life. That's Wendy Schinefeld.

In our conversation, she takes us on her journey from growing up in the Deep south in a transracial family to become a convener, a listener, and a leader in a 49 year old movement of artists and cultural workers fighting for justice. In this episode, we talk about:

* How art can cut through the noise when the words aren't enough.

* What it takes to keep a community safe and connected in challenging times.

* And why sometimes the smartest move for a movement is to work quietly behind the scenes.

So grab your coffee or sweet tea and join us for a conversation about joy, grief, resilience, and the power of gathering in the circle or on the porch or around the kitchen table.

Part one. Roots and Roots.

Welcome to the show. Wendy, just so you know, I look forward to all my conversations.

I particularly have looked forward to this one.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:02:04

Oh, thank you.

Bill Cleveland: 00:02:05

And I'll just give you two reasons. One of them is a lot of the things that matter to me most are coming at you on a regular basis.

So you're like in the Grand Central station of a lot of things that I think matter a lot in the world right now. And number two is in the brief times that we've interacted, I have come to the conclusion that you are a thoughtful person.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:02:32

Yes,

Bill Cleveland: 00:02:33

That's pretty much my criteria for this whole effort. And I should also say it's my hunger, because this is a moment when thoughtfulness is called for, I think.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:02:45

Yeah, yeah, agreed.

I think that every day we are just getting closer and closer to these terrible things that I know I did not think we would see in the United States in my lifetime.

Bill Cleveland: 00:02:59

Well, you know, it's interesting.

spent the last four months in: 1968

Earth shaking you know, the apex of Vietnam, the abdication of a president, MLK's assassination and the resulting upheavals across the country, RFK's assassination, the poor people's march, the Chicago convention, Nixon's election. And so I do think that kind of perspective can be useful now. And I asked myself, what can we learn from where we've been?

So let me begin our journey by asking, where are you hailing from right now?

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:03:57

Well, right now I am calling from my home office in Jackson, Mississippi. And these are the. Of course, many people have lived and stewarded on these lands, but the Quapaway, Natchez and Choctaw people here. And we are.

We also call ourselves the Republic of Jafrica because we are one of the blackest cities in the United States.

Bill Cleveland: 00:04:22

And I am talking to you from Alameda, California, which for most of its time has been the unceded lands of the Ohlone people. And given that we are on the left coast of this continent, also the unseated waters of the Illumina.

So when you hang out with folks who are not familiar with your story, how do you describe your work in the world?

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:04:51

Yeah, well, my official title as the Executive Director of Alternate Roots, that actually it's not my official title. My official title is the Ante of Cultural Exuberance and Sanctuary. And that was a title that was given to me by our staff.

And I think it does really tell the type of work that I do.

I think that I am a person who finds that the way of getting this work done is bringing people together, of having conversations with folks around a table with some food. And that is the way that we get to the heart of the work that we do. And I learned that from my parents that that is how we were in the world.

That was, I think, the finest thing that's ever been said about my family is there's always room at the Shinnefeld's table. And I think that if anything is written about me when I leave this world, I believe that is what I want folks to say. But yeah, so we.

I'm with Alternate Roots and have been there about 10 years. And I wanted. For anybody that's listening that may not know the work of Alternate Roots, I want to share our mission statement.

And we're an organization based in the southern U.S. south.

And our mission is to support the creation and presentation of original art in all its forms, which is rooted in a particular community of place, tradition or spirit. We are a coalition of cultural workers and artists and we strive to be allies in elimination of all forms of oppression.

We're committed to social and economic justice and the protection of the natural world.

And so I think that through the work that we're doing right now, what we're holding right now, I am a convener, a gatherer, a holder of space, at times a person who needs to listen very intently and then help translate some of that between folks who may not necessarily share common language. And I think the reason why I gravitated toward alternate routes is art helps us do that. Art.

You can see a piece of art, and you may not have the words to describe what's happening, but you can feel it in a way, and that helps us reach that common ground.

So, yeah, I mean, I do the stuff that nobody who is an executive director probably loves doing, which is thinking through our policies and shaking the money trees and encouraging resources to rain down on us, especially in the South. But what I think I'm best at is welcoming people into space, helping people feel listened to.

Honestly, that is something that I think that I probably do better than most of the things that I do, which is actively listening. That's why it feels so weird for me to be talking right now.

Bill Cleveland: 00:07:54

Yeah.

And I would also say, just reflecting back at you, that I'm glad you shared the mission statement, because I would consider it among the many mission statements that have crossed my path in my career. It is one of the Mount Everests of mission statements.

And one of the characteristics of Alternate Roots, I feel, is that the mission statement is an aspiration that is constantly being challenged and toiled upon. It's a continuing multi generational effort.

And one of the things that I shared with Kathy dinabruga in my feedback for the history of Roots that is being written was that one of Roots most abiding characteristics and accomplishments is that it's still there.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:08:57

Yes, 49 years next week.

Bill Cleveland: 00:09:01

Officially, we're living in a world where 49 years is extraordinary and much needed. So given what you just described, the auntie and the formal and the informal, what took you there?

What's the journey that made you want to be in this position of leadership and be the listener and convener?

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:09:27

Well, the short answer to so many questions is my family. They are my North Star, particularly my parents, but also my siblings, my nieces and nephews.

I think that being a shunnefelt is a thing in our family. Right.

So I was transracially adopted as a baby and so grew up with white siblings, black siblings, and our parents having a deep commitment to honoring all parts of what we were. This is in the late 60s, early 70s. And so my parents, being white, knew that they could not teach me and my sister how to be black.

And so we needed to have deep relationships and kinship with people who could help us experience who we are growing up in the Deep south, in Little Rock and in Memphis, in these places that we. We lost Dr. King assassinated in Memphis and Little Rock 9.

And so being that that's where I grew up, knowing that no matter what, we kind of love in celebration of our culture internally inside our house, that when we went outside of our home, we were black children growing up in the south and we needed to be ready for what that was. And the best way to do that is through culture.

It's through experiencing food at our friends homes and going to church so we could learn about those old spirituals and the deep faith that helped people get through the hard time of going to see Stephanie Dabney dance the Firebird with Dance Theater of Harlem. And I grew up as a dancer.

And to have a classical dancer who looked like me embody this old dance, this old choreography and make it her own, I think that those things, experiencing the music that ran the gamut of Paul Robeson was on repeat in our home because my father loved his voice, but also Lena Horne and Ella Fitzgerald and all of those things. And then my brother's influence, listening to rock, growing up on rock music. And yeah, so just the whole thing, I think.

But for us, it really was that because we were in a place of privilege.

My father was a pathologist and my mother stopped working as a teacher when we were all adopted, that we were taught you have to show up for people that may be too busy working. Right.

So it was our duty and responsibility, not that we were speaking for people, that we were actually in relationship with folks who might need to work or who might need to do other things, but that we could show up. So there wasn't a speaker that came through Memphis that my. My siblings and I were not in front of listening to demonstrations.

I grew up with my mom hopping on the bus to. To demonstrate in D.C. roe v. Wade and going out west to. And they're very quiet people, my parents, but that the continuing.

I think that continuing to be in relationship with people and then showing up for folks, that that was just a part of how I grew up.

Bill Cleveland: 00:13:01

So, Wendy, coming together and listening and learning was clearly in your blood.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:13:08

That's how you just do life.

And so I always knew I come from a long line of teachers So I studied to be a teacher and was a teacher for several years and got very frustrated with the education system in Mississippi.

I mean, the teachers that are working, hats off to every teacher, no matter what level you're teaching on right now, because God knows I could not do it.

I got very frustrated about five years, six years in, and someone from the Mississippi Arts Commission, Betsy Bradley, she said, aren't you ready to come on over to the other side? And that started my journey in the arts world and then onto the Children's Defense Fund.

And that's where I really cut my teeth as an organizer working under Marian Wright Edelman, Winifred Green, Alita Garrett Fitzgerald. Those were women that were tough on me.

Bill Cleveland: 00:14:01

Wow. You were there at the source. Those are some powerful teachers. What did you learn?

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:14:09

I learned so many lessons from those folks, and I was like, I can. I can go work anywhere. Because they demanded excellence. Your position does not put you above another person. You take out that trash.

Whatever needs to be done, you do that. So all of those things, I think, helped prepare me for this work.

And then I got the opportunity to help work on the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington with the King family, and then the 50th anniversary of freedom Summer here in Mississippi. And I already had been working with so many people from SNCC and the Mississippi Civil Rights Veterans, naacp, Derek Johnson.

And so those were my teachers and became friends and colleagues. And I think that has full circle brought me to roots. So. Yeah, yeah.

Bill Cleveland: 00:15:03

So you describe yourself as privilege, and I know most people translate that class wise and economic status wise.

I think your privilege is embedded in the extraordinary lineage from the get go, your parents, and then on down the road of mentors and teachers and colleagues that you have. I can't imagine a better education.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:15:32

Oh, absolutely agree. Absolutely agree.

Bill Cleveland: 00:15:36

And I mean, in some ways, the role that you have described yourself as a convener and a listener, number one. It personifies all those people, all those mentors.

But I'm sure also comes with what I'm going to translate as a sense of obligation and responsibility to continue that lineage, which is exalted. And the challenge is that's what roots requires.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:16:03

I think, yes, I would agree. There's no time in my life that I was hungry. Right. So there is that peace.

But when I describe my life, I always say it was magical because I just can't imagine how I got so lucky to have this path and to be able to experience so many different people and so many amazing people who already had amazing lives and told me all those stories.

And I would sometimes just try to make myself really small when Courtland Cox and Dave Dennis would be talking about their times driving on the backwoods, or Winifred Green talking about when she went sent to buy the mules for the mule train.

Bill Cleveland: 00:16:48

Here's a commemoration of the Mule Train and the Poor People's March from an ABC Mississippi affiliate.

ABC Announcer: 00:16:58

In: 1968

Education for poor adults and children.

Dr. Hilliard Lackey: 00:17:16

When you think about zero income, that's a hopeless state to be in. And there was thousands upon thousands of people here in the Mississippi Delta without any income whatsoever.

ABC Announcer: 00:17:29

Dr. Hilliard Lackey is president of the Mule Train Historical society. Lackey says Dr. King did not know this would be his last attempt to bring attention to the World War on Poverty.

He was shot and killed in Memphis, Tennessee, before the actual wagon ride began. Those who participated saw it as a way to honor his life and legacy, finishing what he began.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:17:52

Like those stories, right? Those stories. But then also my students, the young people who would talk about something being very normal, like just.

And it would be about the violence that they were experiencing or the wonderment that they were experiencing. And so bringing all of that. I hope that you can hear the joy when I talk about, is this work heavy? Yes, it is. And it's ongoing.

And I think this leadership position that I'm in, it was not taken lightly.

Like many folks who end up in leadership, I think that it was about that responsibility and obligation versus I want to be the leader of an organization. Right.

And it is because of the teachers that I've had, the experiences that I have, and I know that it's for right now because the other thing about Roots is it is ever changing. It certainly is ever changing.

And Kathy denabriga is a dear friend who I don't talk to enough, but I will call on anytime I can sit and have a cup of coffee on the porch with her. And she's part of my kitchen cabinet, who I go to for advice.

Same with Alice Lovelace, who you know very well, and Carlton Turner, who is like a brother to me, who really helped me understand before I even really started this journey. But as a.

As the cultural organizing director, that the types of things that I was getting myself into and the challenge of the times, and I think that this right now, we're about to have Roots Week in a couple of weeks. Our artists retreat in North Carolina that we do every year. And we have some conversations we need to have.

We're at a time in this anti authoritarian push for us. How are we going to show up for our people? How are we keeping our people safe and how are we choosing to show up?

And because we're a member led organization, regardless of what my personal feelings might be, we have to have these deep conversations with our membership to decide who is Roots going to be in this moment?

Bill Cleveland: 00:20:17

Part Two, Life long learning.

One of the great choices challenges of these moments in social history is that the pressure, the tactics are designed to push groups like Roots into a stress position that exposes weakness.

And the question that every Block Bridge Build initiative is facing across this country is do we have the resilience, the fortitude, the humility to be able to speak to our pain, speak to the stress, but not lose each other's arms in the march across the bridge? That's not an easy thing to do.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:21:10

No. No, it's not an easy thing to do. And I'm really learning again. I'm a lifelong learner.

Something that was always stressed by my folks is you never stop learning. My dad retaught himself physics in his mid-80s.

Bill Cleveland: 00:21:24

Wow.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:21:25

Wow. Because I guess he was bored.

And one of the things that I'm learning from, we'll just call them next gen organizers and our teammates, colleagues, is that we have to rest and that we have lost too many people, Bill this, too many younger folks to this work.

And so at Roots, we really are centering not just joy, which is a big part of our art, sharing together, but also the ability to grieve together and making sure we have healers in our spaces for folks. And I call it tagging in and tagging out. So I grew up in Memphis, and so for folks that know Memphis, wrestling is a thing.

And so I grew up watching wrestling on tv. And so it's like when you tag team and if I'm exhausted and I put my hand out, someone else can tag in and come in and do battle.

And then when they get tired, we can tag out. So we do a lot of that. And I think being vocal about that, that's a lesson I'm trying to embody, is to not pretend that everything is okay.

Bill Cleveland: 00:22:39

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:22:40

And that's hard. You aren't particularly put in positions of leadership and then said, oh, be your full self. Right. People are looking to you to lead.

But as a teacher and as a person who Used to work in youth development. All the young people know. Oh, Lord. Ms. Wendy getting on the mic, she knows she's about to start crying. And this is true.

But I think to be open to showing that emotion, to be open to saying, I was Winifred Green, my mentor said, don't say you're tired. Right? You can be tired, but don't express that because, you know, she was a founding board member of the Children's Defense Fund.

She worked for Dr. King, and she needed to be that person publicly. And that's one of the few lessons I have not taken from her that I think it's important for the everybody to understand. Yeah, I'm tired.

I got out of a meeting yesterday, and I was about to make up a lovely excuse, and I said, y', all, I need a nap. I'm gonna leave 20 minutes early. Because I.

Bill Cleveland: 00:23:42

Of course, absolutely. It gives everybody else permission to be humble humans that are imperfect.

So, Wendy, when you think about your journey and you think about your aspiration and the skill set you bring, is there a story that really personifies what you feel is the potential power and impact of the kind of work that you devoted your life to?

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:24:11

Yeah, I've been thinking about this, and I think that there's one that really embodies, and I'll do my best to tell it. This was several years ago, pre pandemic, and we had. It might have even been the last night at Roots Week.

And we had someone who was clearly in a lot of pain get on the mic and say that something terrible had happened without any details, not when, not where, but as you can imagine, it was in some ways, like yelling, fire in a crowd. And we probably had 300 people there, folks getting ready to perform, people there with their families.

And it was a really tough moment to then as a person who has to help manage. I was not in leadership position then. Carlton Turner was. And there was this uproar, and we needed to deal with it right away.

And this is when I saw how amazing of a leader. And just as a human Carlton Turner was, we had one person who knew that their job was to, like, legally, is there something that needs to be done?

But this was, let's check on that person, make sure that person is okay. And then my job was, let's make sure the rest of the 299 people in that space were okay. And so this was quick. It felt slow, but this was quick.

And we realized that people were already taking care of each other in that space. The community that had been Building at that time for about 45 years.

Whether there were new people in the place or not, they were already grouping up, taking care of folks in that space. There were people who had the role of questioner. Right, let's get the information who are coming to me. What is happening? What do we know?

What do we need to do?

There were other people who were doing triage immediately for people who felt that bad thing that happened could either happen to them or had happened to them and needed that holding. I saw Carlton in real time look at me and one other person and say, this is what I think I should say. And his first draft was his final draft.

Like it was just that care.

As a person who has been holding people in Mississippi and regionally, nationally, I'd say was just knew the right thing to tell people this was going to be okay, that we were going to be okay. And then we had an elder who'd been around a long time who got on the mic and started telling their story of trauma.

And it was an important story to hear, but you could tell they got caught in that story. And so there was this almost like a loop where they kind of couldn't get out. And Bill, I'm gonna start crying when I tell this part.

You don't necessarily know, especially as Southerners, when we have an elder who is speaking, we don't want to interrupt them. We don't want to cause more trauma by shutting down something but knowing that they were kind of caught in their own pain. We have a.

At the time, young. I don't know how young she is anymore, but she's younger than me. Sister who grabbed a mic. She was not on staff then. She's on staff now.

I will name her Lauren Elise Fitzgerald. You heard this voice just start singing.

Bill Cleveland: 00:27:49

I knew you were going to tell me that. I knew.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:27:53

And she came. I was like a movie coming from the shadows into space. And other people joined in and singing and just held this person in song, in love.

Oh, it was one of the finest moments of how we deal with the pain through our art practices.

Bill Cleveland: 00:28:22

Yes.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:28:23

And to be held in that space. And I just. Yeah, it's one of the most beautiful things I've ever witnessed.

And then people continued with singing and holding space and breaking off into groups throughout the night.

Most of us were still working together, working through in separate space until 3 or 4 o' clock in the morning and then convening the next day for just kind of a final gathering. That, to me is the best of who we are as a community it certainly helped me understand my role of holding people while they do what they need to do.

Right. Creating a space and experiencing all the feelings and emotions while still taking care of people.

Bill Cleveland: 00:29:18

So those 46 years, that's a deep and abiding instinct rising up from a community. I mean, you've been to conferences. Most conferences are good intentioned folks hanging out together who don't know each other.

And in these kinds of situations, often what you just described can fall into a moment of paralysis because the community has barely scratched the surface of its relationships with each other.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:29:44

Yes.

Bill Cleveland: 00:29:45

So what you just described was a force field of trust and caring and love. That does not come about automatically.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:29:56

No. And that trust piece, I will tell you, it, it, I'm not going to find the right word in this moment.

But because we have new people entering into space all the time, we have people who have been harmed who were either told to get past it or whatever, that we're now at a place in our 49 where we can re examine. We don't have to just shut that up in a closet. We can have those conversations about past harm.

But that trust is something that we're constantly having to work on. Yes, it is not a now I trust you, let's keep it moving. It is a constant that we have to continue to press forward and earn.

Bill Cleveland: 00:30:40

Well, it's a pattern. This country is learning that lesson big time.

Even the pro forma trust or expectation that people have about certain things being right, wrong, the way it's supposed to go, I mean all that stuff is up in the air right now. And of all the things that a society needs, there's some level of trust that what I think is okay is sort of similar to what you think is okay.

I mean that's just the most basic thing. And when that starts to turn into a foggy horizon line, people get scared.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:31:20

I mean the courts. I grew up as a person who I was born in 71 and in the late 60s, mid to late 60s, we started winning in the courts.

And so for me growing up, I was like, oh, that was the line we had. We at least knew that in most situations, not all, but in most situations, if it was a civil right, we might be able to win in the courts.

I'm not talking about individual police brutality. That is not an expectation that I had. But now we're seeing the erosions of trust in the courts and in elections that I have not seen before.

Bill Cleveland: 00:32:04

So. Which brings home the reality that when you convene with the roots, faithful with those kinds of questions in the air.

It's not like, well, it's happening over there and we're here and maybe we'll just have to just protect ourselves. You are one of many groups that are going to have to keep that faith.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:32:30

Yes, keep the faith, keep the work going. While we are not a direct target at this moment, we know that the work, the field is under the microscope.

Bill Cleveland: 00:32:44

That is a true thing.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:32:46

And knowing who my teachers are, the first thing I always tell folks is make sure you get your books in order, because you know that's where they come for you. Your policies, your bookkeeping, hr, all those things. You want to make sure that all that is tight. And then we have some decisions.

We were just together in Atlanta a few weeks ago for a lovely conversation with many of our friends and colleagues, and I think that the there are more than a few routes that people can take right now, but deciding who can take the risk of being loud. Right? Like, I personally can take a lot of risk. I don't have children. I don't have a lot of assets for people to come after.

So I live in a city where I feel relatively safe, whereas someone who might live in a town that's much smaller or where the relationship with law enforcement is very fraught might not be able to take a personal risk in the same way that I can.

Bill Cleveland: 00:34:05

Part three Partners, Coalitions and Listening so.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:34:12

Roots is a part of many different coalitions, and I would encourage anyone that's feeling like they're not sure we always want people to have a political home. It doesn't need to be where my political home is, but somewhere where you are not alone.

And what I love about Zoom and all these national calls that are happening, that have been happening since November is that people who might have been more isolated in rural areas can hop on a call and feel connected to people in the South. Here we have Southern Movement Assembly. It's a coalition of cultural workers organizers, small grassroots organizations, large ones.

And we get on a call once a month and we're organizing together. And so as a group, we can take a risk versus someone out here alone. Same with our National Arts Partners group.

We're able to continue work and in, dare I say, diversity, equity and inclusion and accessibility, where we have had our backers, funders who said, we have your back, we are going to continue to support this, but if you need to be a little quieter online about this work that you're doing, we're okay with that. That's right, because we've always had people who work underground.

Bill Cleveland: 00:35:41

Yep. So I'm assuming there are some people and organizations whose work out there in the field that made them pretty vulnerable.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:35:51

There are folks who are taking real risks.

We have some folks in environmental justice right now who have targets on their backs as possible criminal charges because they care about our waters and our land. But that threat of criminal prosecution. And so in order to continue the work and to stay safe, they might need to go underground.

Bill Cleveland: 00:36:17

Absolutely.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:36:18

And so there's no judgment on do what you need to do to be safe.

Bill Cleveland: 00:36:23

You know, A few weeks ago, I attended a presentation that featured some successful block bridge build. Block bridge build campaigns from France and Chile.

And there were representatives from the Anti Bolsonaro, Movimento Estamos Juntos we are Together movement in Chile and the New Popular Front, Vous Front Populaire NFP in France that blocked Marie Le Pen's RN national rally from taking power.

And one of the things they talked about that to me seemed absolutely critical was the fact that we live in a performative world where some people translate activism as being perpetually in the public. And both of them said, there's a time to raise your head, and there is a time to keep a low profile and organize behind the scenes.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:37:20

Yes.

Bill Cleveland: 00:37:20

And that the power of the work is not determined by the amount of notice that you're getting. You have to be strategic, and you have to understand the force field that you're operating in so that you survive.

Survive in order to be there when it's critical. And there will be moments when being smart and tactical is more important than getting the headline.

The civil rights movement, I mean, what they lacked in financial resources and political horsepower, they had at a strategic level, and they learned it the hard way.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:37:55

Absolutely. We have a phrase that we use that we've learned from our civil rights veteran teachers, and it's somebody's got to make the biscuits.

And everybody has a role to play. Right, Bill? And I know I'm not the oldest in the room right now, but I am not the youngest in this work. And I am.

I'm not an asset on the front lines anymore. But for me, my asset is amplification. I have a loud voice. I have a decent following on social media. I can rally the troops.

I can get people to call in and get bail money. I can help people tell their stories. Right. Amplify their own stories. Everybody has a role to play in this.

Bill Cleveland: 00:38:45

That is so true. And I don't think you can go it alone, not these days. Which brings to mind the annual convening coming up, which is soon. Right.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:38:56

We are the first week of August.

Bill Cleveland: 00:38:58

Okay. So in the first week of August, what do you want to accomplish? What do you want coming out of that?

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:39:05

I think lots of things. One is just to be together.

So many of our people in rural areas or are so busy trying to fight their fights on the front lines where they are, that they don't get that actual that chemistry that happens when people are in the same room. So just that another big part of what I do is porch sitting.

So let's get on a porch and some rockers with some coffee, water or a little something a little stronger and let's just talk like that is such a huge part of what we need right now. I think the creation of something new, the creating art in the midst of this chaotic time together, that is a huge part of what we do.

And I think it's so important right now the improvisational dance that happens, but also the line dances. We Stephanie McKee, June Bug Productions, New Orleans we using line dance as an organizing tool. Yeah, right.

How we come together and learn from each other through music, through movement. But also I think it is, it's what are we doing to keep our people safe and continue the work.

So looking at what is a green Book for the south look like the.

Dr. Hilliard Lackey: 00:40:32

Americans, first published in: 1936

It is now the subject of an exhibit here at the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library in Washington, D.C. candace Taylor, who wrote Overground the Green Book and the Roots of Black Travel in America, helped pull the exhibit together with the Smithsonian Institution Traveling Exhibition Service and the D.C. public Library System. The exhibit tells the history of the guide, named after its creator, Victor Hugo Greene, and his wife, Alma.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:41:14

We wanted to show people who were living their best lives in spite of what was happening around them.

Bill Cleveland: 00:41:21

orgia on My Mind, is from the: 2019

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:41:46

And that's something that we're looking at with roots Southern Movement assembly, the Southern Power Fund. So through our coalitions, where are safe havens for people when they need to flee an area?

Where are places where we can where we know mutual aid is happening because we know how important that is from the pandemic on and way past that. But those are the lessons that we need to take from. But how do we get that information to people safely, I think.

And then just clarity on what are a few goals that we have moving forward. Where are we needing to take a stand on certain things? And where are we needing to go underground? And. And just flexibility. Being nimble right now.

We may have to pivot so quickly. Yeah, all of those things, I think. But number one is just being together.

Bill Cleveland: 00:42:41

Yeah.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:42:42

And. And sharing community at a time where so many people don't feel it.

Bill Cleveland: 00:42:46

So last question is, I'm thinking about. So what age were you teaching back in the day?

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:42:51

Oh, I taught middle school.

Bill Cleveland: 00:42:52

Okay.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:42:53

So, yeah.

Bill Cleveland: 00:42:54

Oh, yeah, the front lines. The front lines, yeah. Okay.

So imagine one of those middle school having lunch with you and saying, what should I be thinking about if I want to do well on the road that you've been on? What would you pass on?

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:43:10

Yeah. Well, my kids are now in their mid to late 30s.

Bill Cleveland: 00:43:15

Okay.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:43:15

And I still live in the community where I taught. And so it's wonderful. I run into them at the grocery store and. And it's still always Missionfeld.

I will always tell them I learned way more from them than they ever learned from me. It's funny because I can be so progressive in some ways, and in other ways, I'm really kind of old school.

Bill Cleveland: 00:43:36

Yes.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:43:36

And I think it's just like basic generosity and kindness. Generosity of time as much as you can. Being a really good listener. I think accountability gets a bad rap.

I think that holding ourselves accountable at a time where we see other folks in leadership that have no accountability, I think we have to be accountable to somebody, even if it's just us. But we have to. If you want to do well in community with other people, have to take you for your word.

People have to be able to trust that you're going to mess up. My mentor, Winifred, used to always say, yes, you're going to mess up, but take note of that.

Like, evaluate that, and then don't make the same mistake next time. Always be willing to learn something new. And so, yeah, be willing when someone offers that opportunity to say, you know what?

I think I might be able to do that.

But every time you're in space with a new person, you don't know if that's going to be your next job opportunity or if that's going to be your new best friend. So come with a curiosity and as much as you can, your better self. Oh, lastly, boundaries. Bill I'm terrible at boundaries.

And so I want other people to be better than I am. I'm working on it. I am learning to say no.

But I think that folks that have boundaries will probably be more successful at work, in community, in life, than people who don't.

Bill Cleveland: 00:45:19

So one thing that just jumps out at me is that you talk about how your parents made every effort to allow the world to school you and bring it to you, and you choose what you take in and what you don't. And this word old school. I think it all comes down to, okay, how do you like to be treated in the world? How do you want to be known in the world?

What do you want people to say in your eulogy? It's like respect, humility, accountability. And there was a time when those are just called manners. And a whole lot flowed from that.

And at the end of the day, it's those things that give people a sense of security and trust in the space that they're in so they know that for the most part, you're going to be okay and you'll be taken care of and you'll be given opportunities to take care of other people. And that's Community 101. Right. It's not some online course.

It is human beings being good to each other and supporting each other and struggling together at the most basic level. Last thing. Any book that you want.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:46:38

Yes.

Bill Cleveland: 00:46:38

Turn people on.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:46:39

Yes. I have my list. I have books in every room in my house. Yes. I lived in the library as a kid.

If I could get paid just to read books, that's what I would do. I love to read. So this was a hard one for me. I will always be reading, Dr. King.

Bill Cleveland: 00:46:55

Yes.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:46:55

I will always be reading about the fierce urgency of now. About. But no surprise to anyone in the time of the Right Reflections on Liberation. Suzanne Farr.

It is a redo of an old book, and it's like a workbook that is top of my list right now. Unrig the Game. What Women of Color Can Teach Everyone About Winning, by Vanessa Daniel. I was able to.

It's interviews with several women leaders of color in the nonprofit field. And it's just. It's things that you know, but this is like confirmation. And the last one's not a book.

I would encourage everyone to just put Nina Simone on.

Bill Cleveland: 00:47:40

Yes.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:47:41

Listen to every. Whatever emotion, whatever is happening politically. There is a Nina Simone song to go with that.

Bill Cleveland: 00:47:50

Yes.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:47:51

So just plug in Nina Simone and listen to that.

Bill Cleveland: 00:47:55

Absolutely. And if you can watch her. I mean, it's like every time she sings a particular song, it is a different song.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:48:04

That's right. That's right.

Bill Cleveland: 00:48:06

With a different message in the moment. You never know what you're going to get. All right, Wendy. Wendy, thank you so much for this.

Wendy Shenefelt: 00:48:15

You are welcome.

Bill Cleveland: 00:48:17

And that's where we wrapped up our conversation with Wendy Schnefeld. I'm so grateful she shared her time with us, her stories and her heart.

If you've been listening along, you know that this is one of those episodes that's probably going to stay with you long after it's over. Before we sign off, I'd like to leave you with three takeaways from our conversation. The first is that, of course, art is a bridge.

Creativity has a way of bringing people together that words alone can't. Also care. Care is part of the work. Often at the center.

Building trust, holding space for grief, and showing up for one another is just as important as the activism itself. And finally, being strategic. Sometimes the most powerful work happens out of the spotlight, off the street.

Knowing when to be visible and when to keep a low profile can protect people and sustain movements. Art is Change is a product of the center for the Study of Art and Community.

Our theme and soundscapes spring forth from the head, heart and hand of the maestro Judy Munson. Our text editing is by Andre Neppe. Our effects come from freesound.org and our inspiration comes from the ever present spirit of OOC235.

So until next time, stay well, do good and spread the good word. Once again, please know this episode has been 100% human.